GAME OVER - HBO Special

164 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

Macho man is the one blaming race as the problem.

Still not engaging you, Hayden...try as you might.

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Posted · Report post

You know, a visuaization of this levy hit me today:

The way I see the school district selling this levy

user posted image

Caption reads: "If you don't vote for this levy, I'll pull the trigger!"

A voice from a supporter: "Won't somebody help that poor man?

The way the supporters are selling the levy

user posted image

The way some detractors are facing the levy:

user posted image

I like your analogy but I believe you are looking in the mirror. The arguments against supporting our school district are comparable to your examples and will result in the tragedy for our community-

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Posted · Report post

Tell it to the "guy" who has his pockets pulled out. You must know someone in that situation.

The district does not need to cut sports and extra curriculars, and everyone knows that. It is just a ploy to punish the communities because we don't want to poney up everytime they want another tax hike. There are many ways to raise funds to cover extra curriculars.

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Posted · Report post

I knew when I posted that some one would turn the imagery around and say the voters were shooting themselves in the head.

The detractors are not the ones using emotion to sell something.

The "vote for the levy at all cost" crowd is the one that continually says, if you don't do this, do it our way (no your way isn't right and we aren't listening to you anyway) you are responsible for harming the children! Think of the children you heartless beast you!

The image that first came to mind was one from a hostage movie where the hostage taker was telling the hero that unless he relented it was the hero's fault the hostage taker killed a hostage not the hostage taker himself (who pulls the trigger). After the man is killed, everyone is angry at the hero because he didn't relent and a person died. Here's a hint "Yippy-kai-yay"

But I wanted to keep it light. So I chose sheriff Bart and National Lampoon instead.

BTW for those who have never seen Blazing saddles, Clevon Little is holding that gun to his own neck! Get it? smile.gif

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Posted · Report post

Should we not support education, there will be a whole generation of people with their pockets pulled out. Without a solid education for the children and their future, the entire country's future is bleak-

The greatness of our people rests on ingeniuty, creativity, enterprising nature and EDUCATION. Without education, there will be no middle class for the next generation. This is the backbone of the success of our country. The American Dream will have turned into the American Nightmare if we allow this to happen first to our community. Will we allow ourselves to become the next domino to fall? If we do, this scenerio will be continue to be repeated in school district after school district across the State of Ohio. Where will you run to? No school district is immune- no private school is immune.

This not a guilt trip- if you chose to feel guilty that is up to you. A conscience is a good thing to have. But you should be fully aware of the effects of your vote either Yes or NO-

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Posted · Report post

Well WWWarrior, the districts expenses increase year after year, why hasn't the dollars/sport increased? Let it go to $600/sport.

Also, South-Western City School District has provided documents showing :

Jethro- I realize that you may have the 8th grade education, but the pay to play has increased over the past few years and currently is $ 120 per sport.

I know you are trying to make a point and it was a very good effort-

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Posted · Report post

And if we should choose to continue supporting an unsustainable system, we have three communities of property owners with their pockets turned out with no hope of getting out.

What business would choose to locate in a community where residents are required to take $4 million plus out of the economy every 3 - 4 years? None!

Can anyone prove to me that the funding needs of this school district are sustainable? Please, prove me wrong.

Again, if the levy passes and we continue down this path, we will ultimately end up losing both our school district and our community in the end - win a battle, but lose the war. If we take the steps now and consolidate, we provide our children excellent educational opportunities at a sustainable cost that is able to attract the demographics needed to grow and evolve our community. Our community not only survives, it thrives and grows.

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Posted · Report post

HUH?

I do not need to point anyone person out... but, honestly I am sick of insinuations of how cold and heartless the people who are working for and with WWCSD are...

When does the insanity stop?

Good question!

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Posted · Report post

Should we not support education,

We do support education to the tune of $11,500 per child, that's the issue. We support education far more than most districts in local counties and the state of Ohio. We are not a wealthy community. Unless the district finds a way to reorganize the schools so that the restructure can generate revenue and help change demographics, we are putting ourselves in a position of "point of no return" with regards to taxes. No one is going to move into a community with; sub-par housing, a continuous improvement/effective school district with extraordinary high taxes. Something needs to be done to secure the future for these kids and our communities and throwing more money at it isn't going to fix it. It may be a temporary fix for the schools, but we'll be dealing with a whole new set of issues. I completely agree with RocketScientist. I understand the desire to pass the levy, but when you look at the overall picture something bigger needs to happen than just "we need more money". And, "thinking outside the box" may need to be involved.

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Posted · Report post

help change demographics

Can you elaborate on this?

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Posted · Report post

If we take the steps now and consolidate

Have you looked into how this can be accomplished? If so, please give us the nitty gritty details.

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Posted · Report post

Ok let's vote for it. Hell, why not? Lets give them ten more years. Hopefully the decline will only continue gradually and nobody will really notice. By the time they catch on to what is happening tomorrow, this whole problem will belong to the kids everybody wants to protect today.

I think alot of people in GH know who posters are by the private things we share on here.
that is why most of us know who EQ is and we know that he is really a teacher in the WWCSD. Give it a rest hayden.

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Posted · Report post

And if we should choose to continue supporting an unsustainable system, we have three communities of property owners with their pockets turned out with no hope of getting out.

What business would choose to locate in a community where residents are required to take $4 million plus out of the economy every 3 - 4 years? None!

Can anyone prove to me that the funding needs of this school district are sustainable? Please, prove me wrong.

Again, if the levy passes and we continue down this path, we will ultimately end up losing both our school district and our community in the end - win a battle, but lose the war. If we take the steps now and consolidate, we provide our children excellent educational opportunities at a sustainable cost that is able to attract the demographics needed to grow and evolve our community. Our community not only survives, it thrives and grows.

Part of the issue we have today is the fact that our district has limited businesses and is mostly residential- There is not GE or Proctor&Gamble in our backyard providing a substantial tax base - The argument for more businesses not moving here is muted by this fact. More importantly, area businesses that are here now will lose clientele if our school district falls into the plight caused by the loss of the levy.

Dollar per dollar spent and kept in your community especially for education will yield positive and favorable results for decades and generations to follow.

The case to support your schools with this increase of .65 cents per day is powerful and will be money well invested.

Vote YES for Issue 55 this Tuesday! Your Community Depends on YOU!

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Posted · Report post

Can you elaborate on this?

I've elaborated 100 times. Look up the defintion "demographics". It has to do with family, elderly, single, married, education, whether or not they actually make money, which by the way the village needs because our taxes are based on income.

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Just watched Stephanie and Paula on Waycross. Stephanie read that over 82% of this new 10% tax hike will go towards salaries, so those pay freezes will end. Looked at ODE for '08 Class room teacher Average Salary.

WWCS district average 58,195.35

Similar District Average 54,674.22

City, E.V. & Local District

State wide Average 54,210.00

Can our communities, which are not above average in wealth, afford to spend above average? 86% of the people we pay don't live in our communities, so this money is not coming back into our economy.

Paula also mentioned that the district might just need another levy in 4 or so years.

(BTW, the Grove City district has had only one increase in 15 years.)

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Part of the issue we have today is the fact that our district has limited businesses and is mostly residential- There is not GE or Proctor&Gamble in our backyard providing a substantial tax base -

Therefore????????

We may have no choice, but to look into consolidating once again with another district. Taxes can't go up and we don't have the commercial tax base required to sustain a district. The WWCSD may need to merge with another school district for the same reasons they felt Greenhills needed to merge with Forest Park. If taxes are too high and enrollment is declining no one in the district should be upset if we merged once again, especially the school board who maintains that the merger of Greenhills and Forest Park was required based on the fact that it was not sustainable.

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Are you making fun of me paula, 8th grade education and all.

The districts own 5 year forecast indicates WWCSD will be approx. 5 million in the hole at the end of fy14, that is if this November's levy passes, it's worse otherwise. If the projected expenditures are missed by 1% in fy13 the surplus at the end of fy13 is gone. What do you propose? You either cut, hope to pass another levy or some combination thereof. Which is it? WWCSD will need another levy in fy12/13.

5 year forecast assumptions:

Also, note that in FY10, we are using federal stimulus money to replace approximately $430,000 in salaries. This is a one time allowance and the expense will return in FY11.

Paula

Dollar per dollar spent and kept in your community especially for education will yield positive and favorable results for decades and generations to follow.

Every dollar in higher taxes is one less dollar I could potentially spend at Riley's.

What now Paula? RocketScientist is correct, this is not sustainable.

Hayden, I disagree with you, teacher's are not paid enough, few I've known haven't earned every penny. It takes how long to get to 58K? If I could magically change the fact, I would start teacher's at that level. If you want to take issue with salaries ask why the Treasure's increased substantially between 2007/08 and 2008/09, look it up!

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Not having a GE or PG is exactly one of the reasons we need to consolidate. To ultimately be sustainable, you must have the right balance of industry, commercial, retail and residential - we don't have it. And aside from what space in Forest Park in new and redevelopment, we don't have enough territory to correct this imbalance.

One of the largest employers in the district, other than the district itself, is Union Central. Union Central was acquired a couple of years ago by another insurance/investment agency in the midwest. If this economic downturn continues long term, stricter federal regulations kick in, etc., what happens to us when the home office decides to merge Union Central to the midwest office? What does our district do then? Raise taxes, again?

Paula talks about businesses leaving because of the educational system. I think they are more apt to leave when those living in the district don't have the disposable income necessary to support their business. Same goes for those businesses who are looking for places to expand. Ten percent of my take home pay goes to paying property taxes - just property taxes. I know others are more lopsided than that.

Continuing to raise taxes is simply no longer the answer. Potential buyers are no longer just shopping for places based on their educational needs - most buyers today don't have educational needs. The majority of buyers, especially in this economy, are looking at the bottom line - what am I getting for my dollar in the way of housing and how much is it going to cost me to live here? We aren't competing now and we sure as heck aren't going to be able to compete by raising property taxes another 20%. And as our property values continue to decline, the next levies' millage will just need to continue to climb.

Until someone can prove to me otherwise, I will continue saying it...

the Winton Woods School District funding needs are no longer sustainable.

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Just watched Stephanie and Paula on Waycross. Stephanie read that over 82% of this new 10% tax hike will go towards salaries, so those pay freezes will end. Looked at ODE for '08 Class room teacher Average Salary.

WWCS district average 58,195.35

Similar District Average 54,674.22

City, E.V. & Local District

State wide Average 54,210.00

Can our communities, which are not above average in wealth, afford to spend above average? 86% of the people we pay don't live in our communities, so this money is not coming back into our economy.

Paula also mentioned that the district might just need another levy in 4 or so years.

(BTW, the Grove City district has had only one increase in 15 years.)

The salaries that Stephanie is refering to are the 30 staff members that would let go should the levy fail-

Here's my question- How can our community not afford this important benefit???

Education is a priority and should be for all of us-

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Are you making fun of me paula, 8th grade education and all.

The districts own 5 year forecast indicates WWCSD will be approx. 5 million in the hole at the end of fy14, that is if this November's levy passes, it's worse otherwise. If the projected expenditures are missed by 1% in fy13 the surplus at the end of fy13 is gone. What do you propose? You either cut, hope to pass another levy or some combination thereof. Which is it? WWCSD will need another levy in fy12/13.

5 year forecast assumptions:

Paula

Every dollar in higher taxes is one less dollar I could potentially spend at Riley's.

What now Paula? RocketScientist is correct, this is not sustainable.

Hayden, I disagree with you, teacher's are not paid enough, few I've known haven't earned every penny. It takes how long to get to 58K? If I could magically change the fact, I would start teacher's at that level. If you want to take issue with salaries ask why the Treasure's increased substantially between 2007/08 and 2008/09, look it up!

I am merely referencing the fact that Jethro from the Beverly Hillbillies graduated from the 8th grade and thought this was the origin of your name.

I am assuming that you did make it through high school and with that education could make a living for yourself and family. Something that the current generation of children deserve today....and something that is our responsibility to deliver to them.

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The salaries that Stephanie is refering to are the 30 staff members that would let go should the levy fail-

Here's my question- How can our community not afford this important benefit???

I'd like to know exactly what those positions are. Is there any way to get a general status, ex. Middle School Science Teacher, HS Art Teacher, Primary Administrative position???

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The salaries that Stephanie is refering to are the 30 staff members that would let go should the levy fail-

Here's my question- How can our community not afford this important benefit???

Education is a priority and should be for all of us-

4 million/year x 82% is 3.28 million/year. Divide that by 30 staff and and that would mean each of them earn 109,333 per year. I doubt that.

4 million next year will do more than cover the cuts of sports and 30 jobs. The budget this year for salaries and benefits is 33.5 million. 3.28 million is about 10% of that.

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Hayden, I disagree with you, teacher's are not paid enough, few I've known haven't earned every penny. It takes how long to get to 58K? If I could magically change the fact, I would start teacher's at that level. If you want to take issue with salaries ask why the Treasure's increased substantially between 2007/08 and 2008/09, look it up!

http://casbohio.com/about/school-salary-da...&casbRowCnt=100

Jethro, this has been discussed before. I didn't necessarily say all teachers are over paid. If you check this link, you can see our teachers get to the district average in about 10 years. They start at about 30K, above state average also. My point is WWCSD pays about 8% over average similar Ohio districts, and our community is not above average in wealth, so can we afford this. This is about 82% of the total budget. (the same % that new monies will contribute to salaries, according to Stephanie)

BTW, Ohio school salaries rank about 13 from the top in the country because of our lower cost of living compared to payscale.

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4 million per year x 82% is 3.28 million. Divide that by 30 staff and and that would mean each of them earn 109,333 per year. I doubt that.

4 million next year will do more than cover the cuts of sports and 30 jobs. The budget this year for salaries and benefits is 33.5 million. 3.28 million is about 10% of that.

I know you like to divide, but you also need to factor in additional related costs such as health insurance and other benefits- As you know these do add the operational costs.

Did I miss your calculations with other factors included as well??

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I know you like to divide, but you also need to factor in additional related costs such as health insurance and other benefits- As you know these do add the operational costs.

Did I miss your calculations with other factors included as well??

Even if you tack on $15,000/teacher for health insurance the total average comes out to approx. $2.2 MM for 30 teachers ($73,000/teacher). If the levy generates 4.2 MM and 82% will be dedicated to salaries, then $3.4 MM will be used for salaries. If only $2.2 MM is used for teachers, then where does the $1.2 MM go? Are these coaches salaries when sports are cut? Is $2.2 MM a low estimate for the 30 teachers? Specifically, what additional salaried headcount will be lost? How much do coaches make anyway? What's the collective salary expense for all the football coaches (Freshman, JV and Varsity)?

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