Bond Issue Information

351 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

I have read most of what was on the WW page about the bond issue. There is no new information that has changed my no vote to a yes. I read the studies they posted, but it's hard to accept as valid when it's not clear who completed the study. Besides any study can be altered to meet the need. Why was Lakota and Mason included in the one study on how new schools resulted in an increase in performance index? Most of their new schools were additional buildings due to increase enrollment, not replacement buildings. The many pictures show a lack of proper maintenance, such as dirty covers on lights, just replace them, rusted pipes in bathrooms, just replace. The biggest issues I saw was that the buildings need new roofs, it doesn't justify new buildings. I look at it like this, taking the car to the dealership for new tires, doesn't justify getting a new car. The only thing this information has shown is that WW doesn't know how to maintain what they got. Why would I want to invest in something new so that they can run the new buildings into the ground also?

I liked how in the Greenhills Q & A page the question was asked about when a new operating levy would be needed. The answer was a vague about 2019. The same time they hope the new buildings get built. I can hear it now, we have new buildings, and they come with increase expenses so we need another levy. We are not dumb. I also didn't appreciate the laziness in some of their responses that said see FP - 31. That means in order for me to see the answer I have to close out one page to open the other. What are you that lazy that they can't cut and paste it into the document?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The answers are cut and pasted. For example:

GH – 4 Is there value in vacated properties? If so, is there a plan for them?

Absolutely. Refer to questions FP – 9, FP – 19 & FP – 31. (below)

FP 9 Can we sell the remaining properties?

It is certainly possible and will be considered if the district builds new. The district

would need to develop a land use plan with community, business partner and

stakeholder input. This would be under the direction of the Board of Education.

FP 19 What happens to the Greenhills Community Building?

This building is registered as a historical site and as such will continue to be used by

both the district and the community.

FP 31 What is the land use plan?

A land use plan does not yet exist. It would need to be developed if we would look

forward to a situation in which we would abandon, demolish, sell or develop current

school buildings and or properties.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

K-Roman:

Princeton, Hamilton, Mt. Healthy also have declining enrollments. Growth doesn't always dictate new construction.

In fact, part of the reason for new instruction (certainly not the major thrust though) was the fact that the district was maintaining an aging infrastructure for fewer students. Hamilton, at one point, had 13 elementary schools and went to nine. Hamilton has some of the poorest neighborhoods in SW Ohio. Their academic achievement is nothing to brag about either.. And yet...

It really is a "throwing good money after bad" sort of thing.

It's like paying to repair an aging car. You can spend $5,000 to "repair" things in a car.. only to have to repeat the process a couple of years down the road when something else breaks down. It is why most people buy a new car (along with the warranty). Sure, their car could go 500K miles, but it would cost them more in the long run.

We can talk about "academic achievement" (realizing that some people will never be pleased), but the bond issue is really about the long term costs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

"but it would cost them more in the long run"

they still haven't established that with any certainty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Started seeing vote "yes" signs. www.warriorsbondtogether.com is the site to promote the bond issue. The "We're All In" campaign is officially under way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Wonder where I can get a HELL NO sign to put in my yard????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If anyone is giving away "Hell No" signs let me know, I think I can find space in my yard for the sign.

Cicero

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

How many 50+ year old houses have been torn down in Greenhills? Not many. I bet less than 1/16 of 1%.

The fact of the matter is this:

Without real results being part of the issue you won't get a "YES" vote. And, not a SINGLE vote should come from this "promise" of better education because of new buildings until the proof of good grades is a trend.

Not WWWarrior, not Equalizer, not Paula, not even the school board will answer this question. It is UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!

The "YES-sayers" to this issue will go into their grave telling every one that it is better to spend huge NOW instead of what have should have been getting taken care of for decades.

AGAIN, why does Roger Bacon, St. Xavier, Elder, Moeller, and the other Catholic Schools (Elementary or high school) have such "fine" facilities and Winton Woods have ones that need "so much repair"? Either, the people who are trying to sell you new facilities are exaggerating the truth, the people whose job it was to keep these same "dilapidated" buildings in good order weren't/aren't doing their jobs, or simply put the community/alumni of these schools aren't being proactive to assist.

This whole issue is a bunch of nonsense and the community shouldn't be at this point.

NNNNNNOOOOOOO VOTE COMING FROM THIS TAXPAYER.

Pool Lover, PM me. I will make us both signs that state, "HELL NO".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Amen to that! I am with you Real Talk!

The Mad Botanist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

"FP 9 Can we sell the remaining properties? It is certainly possible and will be considered if the district builds new. The district would need to develop a land use plan with community, business partner and stakeholder input. This would be under the direction of the Board of Education."

-- This statement alone is cause for pause. Why would anyone trust the WWCSD Board of Education? They have given us NO reason to believe that they are capable of making sound decisions for the district or our communities. In addition, the best interest of Greenhills is not on their agenda and it never has been. VOTE NO!!!

"FP 19 What happens to the Greenhills Community Building? This building is registered as a historical site and as such will continue to be used by both the district and the community."

-- This message is so skewed. How can you talk about old, dilapidated, inefficient buildings and even consider keeping the Greenhills Community Building? This is nothing more than control over the Village of Greenhills and our community. VOTE NO!!!

"FP 31 What is the land use plan? A land use plan does not yet exist. It would need to be developed if we would look forward to a situation in which we would abandon, demolish, sell or develop current school buildings and or properties."

-- A land use plan does not exist? If a land use plan does not exist then the Board of Education HAS NOT DONE THEIR JOB. This in itself can be a major disaster to the village of Greenhills. If it benefits the WWCSD they may sell it to Hamilton County to be used as a prison facility. Even if you believe in building new schools, this in itself should stop you from voting yes. And if you ignore this piece of the puzzle, I have some swamp land in Florida for sale. I'll tell you how I plan on using it after you give me your money. VOTE NO!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

  "FP 9 Can we sell the remaining properties? It is certainly possible and will be considered if the district builds new. The district would need to develop a land use plan with community, business partner and stakeholder input. This would be under the direction of the Board of Education."

Capital Improvement Report 2010 - Sale of Cameron Park Property

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I'm looking at some of these photos on the district website. I love the one of the light panel with bugs in it. I can fix that in five minutes with a ladder, paper towels and Windex. Paint, basic plumbing - cheap fixes. Good lord. The majority of these photos show a lack of maintenance PERIOD.

However, some of these other photos are CRIMINAL! Anyone working there should be ashamed for not demanding fixes SOONER regardless of the levy outcome. Ceiling panels are an EASY fix - one of the easiest. And cheapest.

Did the district purposefully keep up ones with BLACK MOLD to prove their point that they need new buildings? If so, FOR SHAME! They should have been replaced immediately. The district is putting children and workers at risk for health issues. If they do not fix it these things now, before the levy, what are they going to do if the levy passes and fixes are more expensive? They are going to bankrupt the district. They cannot manage what they have now. Why should we trust them with new, more expensive buildings? Anderson is voting on the same issue with similar numbers as us. I will bet their schools are taken better care of than ours.

There should be an investigation of WHY the school is in such bad shape now. And they should not be rewarded with new buildings to destroy.

http://www.wintonwoods.org/DistrictGallery...choolid=0#image

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

"FP 9 Can we sell the remaining properties?  It is certainly possible and will be considered if the district builds new. The district would need to develop a land use plan with community, business partner and stakeholder input. This would be under the direction of the Board of Education."

-- This statement alone is cause for pause.  Why would anyone trust the WWCSD Board of Education?  They have given us NO reason to believe that they are capable of making sound decisions for the district or our communities.  In addition, the best interest of Greenhills is not on their agenda and it never has been. VOTE NO!!!

"FP 19 What happens to the Greenhills Community Building?  This building is registered as a historical site and as such will continue to be used by both the district and the community."

-- This message is so skewed.  How can you talk about old, dilapidated, inefficient buildings and even consider keeping the Greenhills Community Building?  This is nothing more than control over the Village of Greenhills and our community. VOTE NO!!!

"FP 31 What is the land use plan? A land use plan does not yet exist. It would need to be developed if we would look forward to a situation in which we would abandon, demolish, sell or develop current school buildings and or properties."

-- A land use plan does not exist?  If a land use plan does not exist then the Board of Education HAS NOT DONE THEIR JOB.  This in itself can be a major disaster to the village of Greenhills.  If it benefits the WWCSD they may sell it to Hamilton County to be used as a prison facility.  Even if you believe in building new schools, this in itself should stop you from voting yes.  And if you ignore this piece of the puzzle, I have some swamp land in Florida for sale.  I'll tell you how I plan on using it after you give me your money.  VOTE NO!!!

Oh, for goodness sake Christine, why stop there...surely the Board of Education plans to put a nuclear power plant or prison in Greenhills and a brothel on the 2nd floor of the Community Building. blink.gifblink.gifblink.gif

I think they have been pretty clear, they plan to build a K-6 facility in GH in some form or fashion on the current Middle School property. They plan to build a 7-12 campus of some sort at the current HS location in Forest Park.

Very little seems to be written on this thread as to how this would HELP Greenhills rather than hurt. Income taxes, more daytime foot traffic for local businesses, more commercial potential.

What happens to the existing buildings? Well, common sense and past history guides you to charter schools, pre-schools, Alois Center type facility, community centers, churches. While there may be some open land to develop for housing, which frankly is a better income producing option than most of the above, there are limits to what the schools can legally do. Feel free to read Ohio Revised Code 3313.41 http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3313.41 on the hoops that schools have to jump through to sell/dispose/transfer land/buildings. If the WWCSD is a little vague on this, maybe its because they can't go there yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Very little seems to be written on this thread as to how this would HELP Greenhills rather than hurt. Income taxes, more daytime foot traffic for local businesses, more commercial potential.

If anyone wants to explain how this is going to HELP Greenhills, please do so. I am interested to hear about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

WWW don't worry about a brothel being set up in the second floor of the Community Building. To my knowledge that profession is not legally recognized in Ohio as a profession that requires extensive training or a license to operate.

As far as properties that would be rendered obsolete, if new consolidated buildings were built, I believe that under current Ohio Law those properties would have to be offered for sale to Charter Schools before they could be offered for any nonschool use.

Mariemont had to sell one of their vacated buildings to a Charter School which I believe became some kind of language school.

This may open a whole can of worms that the Winton Woods Board of Education may have not anticipated if the Bond Issue passes.

Any sale to a Charter School would be a sale to a competitor which would not help Winton Wood School System because the low report card ratings of the system almost beg for competition. A significant number of students in the District go to private schools now or are Home Schooled.

Maybe the voters will solve the problem by voting NO on the current Bond Issue.

If the Bond Issue fails, let us hope that the Board puts a more modest Issue on the Ballot to make repairs that are absolutely necessary and not just nice to have. Yes there will always be some dispute as to what is necessary and what is not, but like it or not some major repairs are needed. Over the years the Board allowed "Deferred Maintenance" too much, at least in my opinion, which is one of the reasons repairs now will be more costly.

Cicero

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

What happens to the existing buildings?  Well, common sense and past history guides you to charter schools, pre-schools, Alois Center type facility, community centers, churches.  While there may be some open land to develop for housing, which frankly is a better income producing option than most of the above, there are limits to what the schools can legally do.  Feel free to read Ohio Revised Code 3313.41  http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3313.41   on the hoops that schools have to jump through to sell/dispose/transfer land/buildings.  If the WWCSD is a little vague on this, maybe its because they can't go there yet.

First of all, "common sense" doesn't come into play when we discuss the Board. The Board has been wrong and misguided for as long as I can remember, therefore "trust" is absent. The Board has created this district and their only recourse now is to fix the outside because they have no clue how to fix the inside. Secondly, I just read your "code" and the chronological order of events is not relevant when (A) to (F) is a strong possibility. The fact is no one has any idea what the outcome will be. Absent faith, absent trust, absent common sense, absent a plan...my vote it NO! In this case "history" is a pretty strong statistic and indicator of what's to come. The only difference is that it will cost us more. Nothing in this plan addresses the core issues, or provides any analysis for community growth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

If anyone wants to explain how this is going to HELP Greenhills, please do so. I am interested to hear about it.

I too would like to see the study the district has completed regarding the benefits to the village from a tax, property and commercial perspective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Nothing in this plan addresses the core issues, or provides any analysis for community growth.

What you (Christine), myself, Cicero, and others have been talking about: The idea that test scores ARE NOT affected by new schools is the ISSUE.

Emphasis of the scores SHOULD have been not only the kids who want more, but those kids who NEED more. The kids caught in the middle of wanting/trying/able to do better and those kids who don't care to do anything are the kids that this school system is disregarding.

These kids are getting lost in the system. These are the kids that will turn the schools in this district around. I am impressed with some of the things that are going on in the Winton Woods School District. For example, it is nice to see scholarships, whether academic or athletic. It is nice to see a new approach of teaching and participation provided by the Academy of Global Studies.

Again, where is the dialogue from those proponents of this issue regarding the questions we have concerning infrastructure and test scores? I can only assume that they cannot comment on these questions either because they know that new buildings and grounds do not increase learning, they don't believe it is necessary to link the two issues, or they've given up interest in discussing the issue.

I think it's sad to see division in the community over issues like these, but the fact remains that people are not happy. And, why should people be happy? The same people who complain about these matters DO, in fact, want the district to succeed. It is in their best interest not only in the social aspect of things, but in the financial sense as well.

I truly believe that the good people who pay these high taxes in the district feel hopeless to help these kids that are caught in the middle that definitely need a positive role model in their lives. These kids need help doing their homework. They need tutors. They need mentors. This is where teachers come in. This is when neighbors kick in. This when relatives should kick in. This when volunteers from outside of the school should kick in.

Is the administration demanding more from their teachers? Are these administrators doing their jobs efficiently, so that maybe they can come in and help these children? Is there an inlet into the schools for people to volunteer their time either in school or outside to help children. I know that Mt. Healthy has these options. I find nothing on the site.

Just a side note: I find it a bit disheartening that the second link down on the left side of the screen of the Winton Woods School District site concerns voting information: "Are you registered to vote? Where do you vote?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Is there an inlet into the schools for people to volunteer their time either in school or outside to help children. I know that Mt. Healthy has these options. I find nothing on the site.

Volunteering

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I suspect there are many talented people in the District who would be more than willing to help in some way by volunteering to tutor children, et. cetera.

I do not believe the District has yet to make a concerted effort to enlist community help at that level.

I know I and others from Greenhills have acted as Mentors for some the Freshmen at Academy of Global Studies in the High School and I generally have seen students who do want to learn and are well behaved.

However, to be fair, those students who are in the Academy of Global Studies are there as volunteers and are perhaps more motivated than their peers who are not in the Academy. Statistically the Students in the Global Academy do significantly better than the rest of the students on State Tests. The parents of those students also appear to be more involved with their child's education. This crosses all racial lines.

It is possible to get a good education in the Winton Woods System. Unfortunately the quality of education received by the students is not uniform throughout the system and until it becomes so, the system academic scores will still be in the cellar.

Teaching and discipline are major factors. For too long the students appeared to run the school, at least in the Middle School and the High School. It seems that the new Administration is trying to change this. Unfortunately there is a lot of push back from the students and perhaps some of the teachers are too burnt out or lazy to deal with it.

New school buildings however in my opinion are not the solution. It would be just putting the same mess in a newer package with no improvement of the product.

Cicero

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Teaching .... are major factors.

How do you know that?

...  and perhaps some of the teachers are too burnt out or lazy to deal with it.

How do you know that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I believe there is "stuff" missing. We will be getting that back, correct?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now