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Bond + Operational

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Thebrightside,

Good question. 

The Mad Botanist

 

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Thebrightside,

The Bond Issue is listed on the Hamilton County Board of Elections as a Bond issue for 6.95 for 37 years.  It is also listed as "improvements" but it is for construction of new buildings.  Same dog different collar.  The Operating Levy for 4.1 has not appeared as of yet.  I called the Board of Elections and they responded that they have until the end of August to appear for the November ballot.

As you see, I still think you asked a very important question.  Where are We the taxpayer getting our money to pay these new increases?  The administration received an increase in salary, the teachers got a hefty one, and WE the taxpayer we are still footing the bill and yet no improvement in the Academics. 

I am getting to the point that I believe that Winton Woods is in the same category as the Weather Man, who misses the weather predictions, the Reds, who keep losing games, the Bengals, who went from Tigers to Kitties yet all keep getting increases in pay and keep their jobs. 

The Mad Botanist

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http://www.wintonwoods.org/News/11698#sthash.qofnZJgk.dpbs  

Yes, taxpayers, please note a most critical piece of fact omitted from above opinion- Shared funding from the State of Ohio totaling nearly $49 million- slightly less than 50% of critically necessary infrastructure replacement for our community. An investment that stays local and provides long lasting benefits to our overall community value and to solve the issue of how our community can fund the demonstrated need for either new or remodeled facilities.  The contribution from our community is $20.26 per month per $100,000 property value. This investment is .67 cents per day,  I will repeat .67 cents  per day.  The state is covering 1/2 of the COST so your hard earned tax dollars that went to Columbus find their way back into your neighborhood that will return so much greater value improving both financial and quality of life. 

 

Yes, Greenhills, please take notice of the economic benefit to the value of your property provided by this bond initiative. IN addition to Ohio's multi -million dollar funding directly into our schools, our village's number one business contributing to Greenhills'  salary tax base is our own, Winton Woods City School District. With the district's design to build 2 main campuses, one PreK- 6th grade campus at current Middle School cite and second 7th- 12th grade campus at the current High School cite, the streamlining of current 6 buildings concept will also create additional savings each of year of $1.5 million to the taxpayer while also reducing the transition of families every 2 years to new school buildings. 

Yes, Greenhills, with the consolidation of several schools to the PreK- 6th grade campus located in Greenhills, the increased, additional workforce by this consolidation of 4 separate schools into one location will  add to the payroll tax base contributing to our village.   

Yes, Greenhills, with the design of pre K- 6th grade campus set walking distance for young families will create additional appeal and value attracting new families to our community. This will be one of Greenhills's most comprehensive infrastructure improvement projects in recent memory. 

Yes, I am not a "fair-weather" advocate of our children's education and I support this solution as this the right thing to do-  But if you need other reasons that resonate with benefits to your pocketbook and improves your investments, the economic investment for new school construction is a most compelling reason. The return yielding a more powerful value. 

 

 

  

 

Edited by paula

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Posted · Report post

Paula

 

I am pleased to see that you and the rest of the Board are still living in an alternate universe from the rest of the people in the  District.

The State in now offering to pay 50% of only about 2/3 if the Bond issue. The state will not pay for all the "Bells and Whistles" that the Board tacked on because the State did not deem those items absolutely  necessary for educational purposes.,  THE STATE IS NOT PAYING HALF THE TOTAL COST OF THE BOND ISSUE. YOU WERE AWARE OF THIS, BUT CHOOSE TO IGNORE IT WHEN YOU POSTED YOUR FIGURES.

The total tax lien on the average $ 100,000.  home over the 37 years of the Bond Issue , using your own figures, is $8,881.00.

The Board conveniently forgot that the reason that the State agreed to pay 50%  of part of the Bond issue was because the economic data from the state indicates that there has been a severe increase in the poverty level in the District and significant lowering of property values. There are also significant numbers of taxpayers on fixed incomes or who are underemployed as the result of the recession which we are still in. They cannot afford the new taxes. If the bond issue passes, increasing numbers will have to sell their homes because they can no longer afford the tax burden. Whether you like or not, or choose to admit it or not, the new owners will probably have a lower income level than the previous owners and the homes will sell at a much lower value, primarily because of the crappy academic rating the WW System currently has.

If you really want to improve the property values in the District, get serious about academics and discipline in the System especially in the Middle School and the High School. Need I remind you that 60 seniors did not graduate from High School this year. This happened on your watch. As a member of the Board, you "own" the failures in the system.

The construction of new buildings will not add significantly to the property values of the District. I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT THE BOND ISSUE IS NOW LISTED ON THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS WEB SITE, NOT FOR CONSTRUCTION OF NEW BUILDINGS, BUT AS BEING FOR "IMPROVEMENTS"  THIS IS JUST MORE B.S. SEMANTICS WHICH WE HAVE COME TO EXPECT FROM THE BOARD PROPOGANDISTS.

There is also an serious academic downside to Construction of new Buildings> They will take at least 4 years to complete with serious disruption and displacement of students during such construction, not to mention the unavoidable  noise of construction that will impair the student's ability to study and learn. ANY ONE WHO SAYS THERE WILL BE NO PROBLEMS WITH THIS, PROBABLY WOULD BE IN THE MARKET TO BUY THE BROOKLIN BRIDGE,

 

CICERO

 

 

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

 

  

Again and again and again- the answer is YES for new school bond this election: Tuesday, November 8th. 

YES, this additional investment in our community and children for much needed infrastructure replacement of aging buildings is .67 cents per day!   A value that will enhance our community and your home value.  This is the right step in the right direction for building value both structurally and educationally and strengthen the future of our community today and tomorrow. 

YES, the issue of aging school buildings is all around us- actually 70% of the US is suffering this exact same issue and struggling to find resources to help. We see this problem played out locally with neighboring school district's relying upon the state to offset these major investments. The talk of moving somewhere else will only bring up this question again so we can not hide or move away as a means to solve this plaguing question.

And YES, as your elected board member, this proposal on the ballot was submitted to our community for serious consideration. It is not up the 5 school board members to withhold from the voters the chance to entertain this serious proposal. Is it the desire of voters to accept the state of Ohio's $48.8 MILLION funding contribution that dramatically decreases our local contribution? Is this really in our best interest to vote against our best interests as a community?   

And YES, economic development with new jobs and increased revenue for local business during this major construction project is also an added value and a great win for Greenhills. If you really vote with your wallet, this opportunity will deliver the best return on investment.

And YES, great things can be accomplished for be betterment of the entire community most importantly our two chief assets- our children and our tax dollars.  

   

Edited by paula

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Paula and/or Cicero (or anyone else who would care to respond):

I would like to see some facts and straight talk regarding exactly what we will get if the bond passes.  I am in the camp that believes our students need new facilities; however, that does not mean that ANY new building will do.  I believe our district needs to be a good steward of these tax dollars, and must have transparency in every step of the process, and must thoroughly consider the needs of the students in designing these new buildings. 

A former board member told me that the new buildings will not include an auditorium at the high school/middle school level because the state does not deem it necessary (According to the state, it seems a "cafegymtorium" is sufficient.) and that the taxpayers will need to pay additionally after the bond issue to add an auditorium into the design.  Obviously, our district needs an auditorium to support our excellent fine arts program; in fact, at the high school/middle school level, it needs two, not just one.

So my question is:  Exactly what will we get for our money if the bond passes?  Details, please.  I am most interested in hearing if the high school/middle school facility will have two auditoriums, because if it doesn't, we need to demand that the needs of our students be fully addressed in the bond issue.

Detailed information on the proposed buildings would be appreciated.  While I understand that it is not possible to know every detail at this point, basic concepts such as estimated number of classrooms, whether or not there's an auditorium, etc., must be known before our district commits such a huge amount of money to the project.  This is too important to our district's future to say "We'll figure it out later after the bond passes."  (Not to mention, there's much more likelihood of the bond actually passing if the voters know what they are getting for their vote.)

 

 

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Posted · Report post

Paula,

The current five year forecast indicates a new property tax coming into tax payers future in FY 2020. Remember FY 20 begins July 1, 2019. Will this bond levy address the district's forecast overspending?

13.0 Revenues from New Levies
13.010 Income Tax – New
13.020 Property Tax – New
13.030 Cumulative Balance of New Levie

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Posted (edited) · Report post

 

New schools, once complete,  will deliver $1.5 million in additional savings per year, but the 10 year emergency operation levy passed in 2009 expires in 2019 and would need to be renewed for this funding to continue. Our district has conserved resources over the life of this 10 year emergency levy, but would be needed going forward- this  in my opinion as an individual, As regards a formal school board decision, the board will have to render its' opinion as a team.  

  

 ps- sorry this reply is responding to Mirth's question .

Edited by paula

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Posted (edited) · Report post

 

GambierGal, The exact design plans of the 2 campuses has yet to be created allowing for necessary input from parents and community for decisions.  I can say there is great support for our arts programs along with the extra curricular programs desired for a student's well rounded education.  

Please express your thoughts today about what is needed for the new facilities to add to the choir of parents needs/ requirements. But this conversation for additional needs will be moot point unless or until we can pass the bond proposal. Also please continue to express the need every day going forward. This is an exciting time to contribute for the future of education. Not often is this chance to participate in these critical decisions afforded to us as a community.  This discussion opens up a number of other community generated proposals in conjunction with new schools that our community could benefit from as well.    

 

Edited by paula

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Posted · Report post

Paula,

I understand that the exact design plans have yet to be created, but there are some guidelines put in place by the state in order to receive the funds.  Can you please direct me to those guidelines?  Is it true that the state would not cover any of the cost of an auditorium at the high school/middle school campus because it deems it not necessary?  Surely the board must know what the state would or would not cover, and that's what I'm trying to find out.  Could you please provide that information?

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Posted (edited) · Report post

 

 

This question is from GambierGal-  not sure why the above member's name continues to copy - my apologies to all. 

The state outlines very specific areas it will and will not fund and yes, an auditorium is one feature that is not part of the state contribution although this vital component is locally funded. From my understanding, funding for an auditorium at the HS/MS campus is included into the funding request. There are many decisions with additional design and needs of our new schools so it will be imperative our parents play a key role with priorities for planning.   I will get more information for you to you can review as well. Thanks!   

 

Edited by paula

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Posted · Report post

Paula,

The 2009 emergency levy was 7.95. If the 1.5 million in savings is real (via new construction), a renewal is going to be in the order of 4+ mils. So, in the near term, two years, this BOE will ask the tax payer upwards of 11 mils. It will be more.

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Paula,

Thanks for the information you provided.  You mentioned getting more information for me - do you know the time frame of that?  Thanks also for your offer to get that information - that is the kind of transparency I like to see from our school board - keep up the good work!

My concern is this: What items are not covered in the bond that will then have to be additionally funded or else cut from the design of the new buildings?  What if the bond passes, but then the district can't find the money for the design "extras" that the state deemed unnecessary but that we who live in the district feel are absolutely necessary?  Is there any chance that we could end up with new buildings that look great but function poorly, lacking in things students need (such as auditoriums) because the district couldn't find the additional money (on top of the money generated from the bond) to pay for these items?  Will there need to be additional levies or bonds to raise the funds for these additional items?

 

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Paula, you sound like Polosi. We need to pass it to see what is in it. You can throw out all the bull crap you want but where will I get the money to pay it. I haven't seen an increase in my retirement pay in years. Until you change the attitude of the majority of parents and students you might just as well have school at a shelter in the park.

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I am with you the Brightside.  My husband did not get an increase in his retirement on 2016, and I did not get an increase in 2015.  Between the two of us, we got 1% each in the two years.  6.96 for the Bond Issue and 4.1 for an Operating Levy is a leap of faith that I am not willing to take since I do not have faith on the present Board Members.  Only one had the good sense not to vote for the Administration increase.   I can't believe that between the past two years and the school years 2016-2017 /2017-2018 the teachers will have received a total of 15% in 4 years.  I feel that the taxpayers are their cash drive-in window and they still want more.  Where else in production management employees get a 15% increase with such dismal performance from the students?  Do not forget that the Administration received also an increase, I do not have the figures on that but history shows that is not far behind from the teachers.

Roger Bacon has a 100 years old building and manage to produce great academic scholars.  The new buildings are not going to solve the problem they got.  In fact if the results do not improve, we will be paying for empty buildings for 37 years when the state takes over.  Please also notice that I did not say IF. 

The Mad Botanist

Edited by Mad Botanist
Added on.

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Posted · Report post

If the Board is serious about getting a Bond Issue passed, those parts not partially funded by the State should be eliminated. New auditoriums and community centers might be nice to have, but are not really necessary in the broad scheme of things. Some taxpayers and the Board are asking the rest of the taxpayers to fund pet projects that will benefit relatively few, such as those in Theater Arts or Dancing.  This is asking too much in the current economic client.

WHAT HAS BEEN FORGOTTEN IS THE FACT, THAT  WHEN THE STATE TAKES OVER THE SYSTEM BECAUSE OF A DECLARED" ACADEMIC EMERGENCY", UNDER CURRENT LAW, IT HAS VERY BROAD AUTHORITY INCLUDING THE AUTHORITY TO CHANGE DISTRICT BOUNDARIES. IF THIS HAPPENS, AND THE BOND ISSUE PASSES, MANY TAXPAYERS MAY END UP PAYING 37 YEARS FOR SCHOOL BUILDINGS THAT ARE NO LONGER IN THE DISTRICT AND TO WHICH THEIR CHILDREN CANNOT GO. THIS IS JUST MORE B.S., THANKS TO THE FECKLESS SCHOOL BOARD WE ARE SADDLED WITH.

For this reason alone, taxpayers should reject the Bond Issue until there is much more certainty as to where the District is going academically. I FOR ONE WOULD NOT LIKE TO PAY FOR BUILDINGS IN SOMEONE ELSES DISTRICT.

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Cicero,

Are you serious in saying that the auditorium benefits only a few?  Have you no clue what goes on in our schools?  Between band, orchestra, choir, and theater, more than 90% (based on figures I was given) of the high schoolers use the auditorium.  That's over a thousand students using the auditorium each year - you call that "relatively few"?  You mention "Theater Arts" and "Dancing" as though our band, orchestra, and choir don't even exist.  Are you not aware that our district has an award-winning music program and that the auditorium is regularly used for this program?  In fact, it is used on a DAILY basis at the high school, as the symphonic band uses it as a classroom for daily band class.  Your arguments are hard to take seriously when you show ignorance of the basic functioning of our high school.  I suggest you learn more about what goes on at the high school and other schools in our district so you can make suggestions from a position of knowledge.

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Yes Gambier Gal, I am quite serious about the lack of an absolute need for a new auditorium.  You obviously have an axe to grind regarding the subject because I understand you may have an interest in  a Dance School. This is great, but why should the rest of the taxpayers pay for an addition that may be a nice to have , but not a need to have.

What the School has now is adequate and functional for use as an auditorium. Taxpayers just cannot afford another expensive "Bell and Whistle"

If the State really thought it was necessary It would have agreed to fund part of it.

Cicero

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Cicero,

Once again, you are showing your ignorance.  Do you think I use the auditorium for free?  No, I pay thousands of dollars each year to rent the auditorium for my dance recital to SUPPORT the school district and bring in more money for the district.  I could always rent elsewhere, and get a more up-to-date facility, but my money would be going to support another district rather than my home district.  How on earth can you construe this as having "an axe to grind"?  Maybe you should start supporting your district more, rather than trying to tear it down.  Do you provide money to the district above and beyond your tax dollars as I do?  I don't think so.  Have you signed on to help with the back-to-school rally?  Again, I don't think so. 

While I don't think our district is perfect and has room for improvement, I try to support it and help where I can.  I see nothing wrong in constructive criticism as long as you are also trying to be part of the solution, but too often, I see you criticizing and saying what others should do, without being willing to get in there and do the work yourself.  And I don't count serving on committees, where once again, you are telling others what to do without willing to get down in the trenches and do actual work yourself.  I hope to see you at more functions serving the students, such as tutoring, fund-raising, serving at events, setting up events, cleaning up after events, etc.  That would not only give you more insight as to what is going on in our district, but it would also lend more credibility to your words.

Edited by GambierGal
typo

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Gambier Gal,

What happened to the program that we had as Student Achievement?  Those Certificate that we were to hand out to those who achieved academically?  What happened to the meeting itself who was to create ideas for Student Achievement?  There was a young girl that went in front of the Board at that time, making a good point of following with the plan we had to set forth the tone of achieving...too bad that adults could not relate to the message of that young lady!

It is great that we achieve in ART, and Music.  But right now "Houston We Have a Problem"!  If we do not improve in academics...what do you think is going to happen to Arts and Music?  If we cannot achieve in Math, Science, English, Government, Foreign Language, what do you think the STATE will do with the ARTS and MUSIC?

Every question for an improvement have been shot down with the statement "we cannot do that here".  I believe that the Board only has open lines with the City of Forest Park.  If my information serves me right, has no communication with the Village of Greenhills or with Springfield Twp.  The last attempt with Greenhills was an offer to have an open and franc discussion with the members of Council and the Board of Education and have it as an open meeting.  That was in January of 2016.  The members of Council had to summit the questions in advance.  Does that sound familiar?  Council did.  Nothing was heard of that.  I know that one member of the Board has reached out to Springfield Twp.  I do not know the result of that.  The presentation invitation was send just two days in advance.  Is that showing that the School and/or Board wish to have total participation?

Perhaps we should say that they are NOT communicating with the taxpayer...just with parents who have students at the School System.  The rest of the taxpayers are just like a PAY PAL account.

Sorry Gambier Gal, when and if the academics improve and I mean really improve not just a magic trick with numbers, only then there will be full support...and I get my numbers directly from the State Department of Education in Columbus.  Get some specific questions involving the academics, go there, sit a while  and come home with numbers with an entity who does not have an axe to grind.

I guess I agree to disagree with you.

The Mad Botanist

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Posted · Report post

Gambier Gal

 

Once again you are showing your abject ignorance of the subject matter.

The original plays were performed in ancient Greece and Rome in outdoor settings and they are still classic works today. Shakespeare was performed in what we would call a glorified barn by todays standards. WHAT IT CRITICAL IS THE QUALITY OF THE ACTORS/PERFORMERS AND THEIR TRAINING, NOT THE FACILITIES USED.

I attended performances of Mozart's Quintet in Vienna, Austria where it was originally performed, and it was nothing more that an room primarily made of stone. The music itself was the attraction , not the venue where it was performed.

You unfortunately have a Champaign Taste, but live in a District that has a Beer Pocket Book.

Cicero

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Mad Botanist,

I don't understand your "axe to grind" reference near the end of your last post - can you clarify?

As far as your other points - I do agree with you that the Board and Administration needs to do a better job of listening to the taxpayers of all three entities (FP, GH, and ST) and needs to really listen, not just have "community conversations" that are dominated by administrators and staff trying to get in good sound bites without wanting to discuss the real issues.  (The last such event had a lot of people there. but pretty much everyone there was paid administrators, school board members, and teachers.  There were only five people there that I counted who were not employed by the school district.)  So we do agree on this topic - the need for better communication with all members of the community.

But I disagree that the arts are not fundamentally important to academic success.  Numerous studies have shown the connection, and we can't afford to sacrifice our arts and music programs and just focus on academics, or we will find that the academics are paying the price.  I'd like to elaborate further, but I have to get to work, so more later.

 

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Cicero,

You are showing your ignorance, not me.  Of course I know the theater and music references you made, but do you seriously think that is relevant?  The kids need an auditorium, and I don't know why you jumped to the conclusion that I was advocating for a "champagne taste" auditorium.  (I don't drink, by the way, so I hardly have "champagne taste.")

What do you expect the kids to do - perform outside?  In December, when it's snowing?  Of course they need an auditorium, unless you plan to cut music, band, orchestra, choir, and theater, in which case, the academics would suffer greatly, as numerous studies have shown.  Have you done your research on that?

I have more to say on this, but as I mentioned to your wife, I must get to work.

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Posted · Report post

THE ONLY PRACTICAL ANSWER IS "NO"!!!!  JUST LIKE GREENHILLS AND FOREST PARK MERGED YEARS AGO, IT'S TIME TO MERGE ONCE AGAIN. THESE COMMUNITIES DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY!!! FOR GREENHILLS, WE JUST MIGHT END UP WITH A GOOD ELEMENTARY SCHOOL -- - AND THAT WE CAN WORK WITH!

IT AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE...

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Gambier Gal

Do not be ridiculous or facetious  , the kids are not going to perform outside in the middle of winter, the indoor facilities are more than adequate.

I have attended performances in London England, Paris France, Madrid, Barcelona and Seville Spain as well as Milan Italy and Dublin Ireland. With the exception of Barcelona, all of the facilities predated WWI and would be considered out dated by Broadway and Hollywood.

Wherever we went, it was always to a packed house. The patrons went to enjoy the performances and the skill of the performers,not to see the facilities.

The WW Choir does very will in competitions, and the facilities they practice in do not seem to hinder the quality of their performance,

We will have to agree to disagree and come election time our votes will cancel each other out.

 

I have made my point and do not plan to add anything further regarding the Auditorium.

 

Cecero

 

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