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Just Not Acceptable

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Bucko is a real genius!!! laugh.gif

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BB I am totally serious. Lakota reconfigured into a very similar format and they improved their scores. It is not the reconfiguration, as an educational method, that is the problem.

I think that Christine may be on to something that people started pulling their children out when the reconfiguration plans were announced. But why? Is is really because of the reconfiguration? Or is it REALLY because some people didn't want their kids going to schools with "those" kids? That is probably much closer to reality than this mumbo jumbo about kids going to too many schools.

One of my granddaughters is starting 2nd grade in her 2nd school in Lakota. She and her brother and sister will attend 4 schools before she reaches high school. She is thriving and no one has freaked out about her attending "too many different schools".

Question Gobucks. Do you think your daughter or son (parents of the grandchildren in Lakota) would have kept them in WW after the reconfiguration? Just curious. Not attacking you, I'm genuinely curious.

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Reading the article I knew that all of those who have derided statistics in the past would jump on THESE statistics.  That being said, this rating is not acceptable.

I don't have any issues with statistics. Statistics are a key element in making appropriate decisions. My/Our issues has always been using statistics and using them in an irrelevant manner, which WW and Equalizer do on a continual basis. Let's step away from the school and I'll give you another example.

Problem: I have a size 8 foot. My shoe is a size 7 1/2. My shoes does not fit.

Solution: Take the size 7 1/2 back to the store and go buy a size 8.

WWSD Reps: But, lots of people have a size 7 1/2 foot. People everywhere have a size 7 1/2 foot, even people in China.

Result: Are their comments true? Yes. Are their statistics accurate? Yes. Are they relevant? No. Do they solve my problem? No.

The idea that reconfiguration is the cause doesn't make sense since Lakota did precisely the same thing and they are rated at the top. 

Lakota reconfigured within their own borders. They did not reconfigure within multiple borders. They did not try to merge several communties together that did not want to go along for the ride. People who move to Lakota accept this concept and the idea of a large community. Would this be an issue within our own borders? No, because you are still within the borders of your community. If Beechwoods was K-4 and Damon Road was 5-8 and the Middle School was 9-12, would we be facing the same issues? No.

Because of the strength to keep going into this shredder called junedale.com schools forum, he/she gains credibility with each posting.

I disagree. I believe (s)he radiates denial, couple this with denial from the decision makers, and that is why this district will never be successful.

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Go Bucks,

That's what I'm saying. You can't compare Lakota's reconfiguration with WW. It is a totally different district with completely different situations. Our reconfiguration did up root the school that my children attended. People liked it the way it was. This is no Lakota by any means. Very small compared to that district. That's why people are so upset. They lost their NEIGHBORHOOD Elementary schools.

I don't believe Lakota even had NEIGHBORHOOD elementary schools to walk to. I did like my kids at the same school. It sure doesn't seem to be working the way it is now. Of course there are people that are happy with things. It just so happens everyone I know and were friends with pretty much left.

Nobody can ignore the behavior issues that are at the buildings. My child was in 6th grade last year and the things that went on there were ridiculous. Straight from a staff person's mouth. Not rumors. So that is why people have moved or switched schools.

BTW......I do have friends who's kids are at the High School and thriving just fine.

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You have to look at the school district as a whole. Is there a great gifted/advanced curriculum? From what I have heard, yes. Are those people happy with the school? It seems to be true. Is the special education program good? From what I have heard, yes. Are people happy with that program? It seems to be true. Great, we have good/sufficient/excellent coverage for 20% of the students. What about the other 80%?

I have a question for all the WWSD people who have students in the gifted, or special ed, classes. If the levy did not pass and the gifted/special ed classes were removed (and I know that some are federally funded, etc.), would you still attend the WWSD? If your answer is "NO", then something is WRONG. It has to be fixed. Throwing more money at it, will not fix it. Serious change has to happen. If you are supporting the levy just to save your "piece of the pie", something is WRONG. You need to look at it as a whole. For those who support the school district and for those who oppose it, we need to come together on behalf of the school district. We need to demand change, or the school district will continue to fall, as well as this community.

DEMAND CHANGE, GIVE US SOMETHING WE CAN ALL SUPPORT. I SUPPORT:

-- K-6 ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS IN GREENHILLS, SPRINGFIELD TOWNSHIP AND FOREST PARK.

-- I SUPPORT (2) 7-12 MIDDLE SCHOOL/HIGH SCHOOLS IN GREENHILLS AND FOREST PARK.

-- I WOULD BE THE FIRST ONE TO VOTE FOR A LEVY THAT INCORPORATES THESE CHANGES.

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Sorry to ruin everyone's fun, but:

There was NO OATH signed by any employee...it was a PLEDGE in which each employee stated exactly what they would do, in their corner of the district, to make improvements in three seperate goal areas.

Good to know that the community at large ISN'T really interested in any employee improving upon what they already do. How dare a district, who has dropped in their rating, ask that improvements be made.

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Sorry to ruin everyone's fun,

Believe me, this isn't fun. This is changing the lives of many friends and families. Not to mention the dynamics of this village. All for what? mad.gif

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I don't care whose 'friend' you are..... there is something WRONG with you. WHY are you here? WHY do YOU do this? Please don't answer!!!!!

This has been a great discussion, no need for personal attacks

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So What now? The reconfiguration happened and WWCS enrollment went down. They can not pass a levy; they can not even get an effective rating (even when the bar has been lowered). They have many discipline issues sometimes more than we are told about. 3 communities to support this district, yet not much support! The families that are leaving the WWCS are not families that do not care that’s why they are leaving they are seeking better opportunities for their children. Weather it may be private or if they are fortunate they sold their home and moved to a district that can not only achieve excellence but distinguished excellence. We are 1 out of 2 schools that went down in rating WHY?

All I heard when the school board was talking about the reconfiguration was how great this was going to be. The students will have all the resources they need in each school, they can work together, We ARE CULTIVAITNG A WORLD CLASS EDUCATION!

The school board needs to take a long hard look at themselves and ask what is going on. What do WE need to do different? What could WE change to bring more families back to our district? They need to acknowledge that they may have not made the best decisions’ and they can always fix the problem. I believe that we have wonderful teachers at WWCS; I think their leadership is the problem.

I was taught and teach my son, if you screw up fix it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You will gain much more respect if you make a mistake, know that you made a mistake and then fix the mistake.

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If my grandchildren lived in WW, yes, they would have stayed and been supportive parents. Would they have been happy with the recent results? No. And people in WW shouldn't be either. Since this is the first drop in ratings in several years, I would be asking "why"; expecting the district to identify trouble spots/centers and working to eliminate them. We've already had the discussion on here about FF losing their rating last year because of a tiny minority of students. They seem to have fixed the problem this past year. Let WWCSD crunch the numbers, find the problems and turn them around. This is not that big a district that it should be difficult to spot the problems. Solving them, though, may require some cooperation from teachers and their union. Not accusing, just saying. Let's face it, there are also only so many possible sources of the problem and teachers are one major potential factor. It also may require commitment from some segments of parents. Another potential major factor.

And for all of you brainiacs out there, Lakota is not exclusively West Chester. It is also Liberty Township, West Chester Township and even parts of Sharonville. But, you are right. They don't have neighborhood schools anymore. They lost those a long time ago. They reconfigured for many of the same reasons that WW did. It saved money at the same time that it provided a better educational experience for the students.

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The data does not support such an opinion, but it's your opinion.

The data from the new state report card what does that show us? WW would it be your opinion that WWCS has failed all three communities? If so what is the BOE plan to fix this and if it is not your opinion that the BOE has failed us then why is this JUST NOT ACCEPTABLE

Please tell us what the next big plan from the BOE is.

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I will respond shortly (as I said on another thread).

By the way "Cincygrl", I have never hid my bias. Of course, I have a vested interest in seeing a levy passed. But bear in mind, if WW can't afford to pay teachers what they feel that they are we are worth, they CAN go elsewhere. Nobody points a gun at any of our heads. We enjoy working here.

I am not on here to beg like a dog for you to pass a levy to give me a raise. =) I don't need to. I have many options. So do all of us.

The levy is not about the equalizer. It is about the community.

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At Convocation last Friday, each and every employee of the District personally signed a pledge to “do their best individually and collectively to support the district’s vision, goals, and student performance”.

Is this all I have to do to keep my kids room clean?

What exactly is the districts goals? To date I am pretty confused!

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An Othe wow what's going to change?

Who determine's one's personal best?

How's it going to be monitored? or Can it be monitored?

Will a teacher who had less than one day after signing the Othe to prepare for the start of school, going to change their teaching style?

What if I as a teacher, think I'm doing my best, and someone else doesn't, what going to happen?

It's nothing but lip service. Know we have a rating that dropped, which the district will use as the reason for needing money? So that they can better meet the rating.

The new added measure to the report card is called "Value Added". It is the measure of each student's progress. If you don't meet the Value added component, it means that most students did not make 1 years growth in their learning in the course last school year. If I was a parent, I'd want to know why my kid didn't make a years worth of growth? It's scary to think your kid is know behind. Yikes.

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I have never hid my bias.  Of course, I have a vested interest in seeing a levy passed.  But bear in mind, if WW can't afford to pay teachers what they feel that they are we are worth, they CAN go elsewhere.

I never claimed you were biased. I said I took whatever you wrote with a grain of salt because of your vested interest - which has always been obvious to me anyway. Your last post here proved what I suspected - it's all about the $, not the vocation like most teachers claim. Especially when you have to be asked to pledge to do your best. (God, tell that to an administrator up north when you go apply in Utopia. I am sure you will be hired immediately.) Usually, I feel like I have to be fluent in Orwellian Doublespeak when reading and listening to those employed by the district - but you equalizer have made it obvious to me what our intent is. It has always been about passing the levy for you and I have ignore responding until today. You have just said you will and others will go elsewhere if we the taxpayers don't pay you what YOU think you are worth. You don't live here - you just get a check here but you get on this neighborhood forum and chastise those of us who do reside here and provide you the majority of that paycheck. Seems to me there are many residents who don't think the district is worth any more money than it already gets and you can't stand that. Well too bad, we are entitled to an opinion - we PAY for it.

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Okay, now my response. As if everyone was waiting =)

1) No, the staff did not take an "oath". I filled out my card as well. But, to be quite honest, I have always tried to do my best individually and collectively to support the district’s vision, goals, and student performance. In my small group, I made a statement (that I won't share here) about what I see here in the HS. Every organization can improve. The point was to get the staff to re-affirm themselves to first principles. It's a fair thing to do even if the school were labled "great".

2) The scores for our district were unacceptable. Even the HS (which was rated effective), has a lot of work to do. Believe me, our new boss has jumped in with both feet on this. None of us were pleased. I can tell you that we are busting our *** to right the ship. As a professional, I was not happy to read the listing of schools and see where our school was mentioned. None of us up here were happy. Again, I am proud to teach here and I still am. Should I now hang my head in shame over where I chose to teach? I think not.

As a lot of you have said in response to me, "test scores aren't everything".

As a staff member, this does reflect upon my reputation as well. By that I mean, that you could probably really suck as a teacher at Lakota. BUT, if you say "I teach at Lakota", people generally assume that you must be a really good teacher to work there. Some will disagree with me on that point, but this is always the perception that I see. It is no secret. These ratings carry with them a lot of prestige, or in our case, stigma.

Oh Equalizer, I heard that your district dropped to CI.... ooooh, how is that going??

Yeah, I can't wait to hear that at those teacher meetings we go to.

The district rating also affects each and everyone of us in a personal way. Nobody wants to be affiliated with mediocrity. (That is why I there are a lot of Steeler fans around here.)

3) As I have also said, I can live with whatever the voters decide in November. I can't sit here and worry about it. Most of the minds on here were made up LAST year. I am a professional and will just have to suck it up and do my part to set things right. My mandate (as is the mandate of the other members of the staff) is to do the things that need to be done to raise these scores BACK to the level that the community expects. We have done it before and we will do it again.

Very few people gave us credit then, many people are throwing the bricks now. I have come to expect that on here. But I must soldier on.

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An Othe wow what's going to change?

i'm sorry, i've been following this "discussion" for a little while and i don't recongnize this word...

othe

is this supposed to be "oath"? sometimes i get lost in these discussions because educators use acronyms that i don't recognize. is "othe" one of those? i truly am not trying to be catty...

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I believe it is "oath".

By the way, thanks for the card Schouten. It was very sweet and came at a time when I really needed it.

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thanks. and you're welcome.

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I have a question for all the WWSD people who have students in the gifted, or special ed, classes. If the levy did not pass and the gifted/special ed classes were removed (and I know that some are federally funded, etc.), would you still attend the WWSD? If your answer is "NO", then something is WRONG. It has to be fixed. Throwing more money at it, will not fix it. Serious change has to happen. If you are supporting the levy just to save your "piece of the pie", something is WRONG.

cool.gif No, absolutely not. I would move. I'm not ashamed to admit that. I am not "buying" the WWCS, I am "renting" it. If the terms of the agreement change (i.e., no AP or honors), I find a new "landlord".

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cool.gif No, absolutely not. I would move. I'm not ashamed to admit that. I am not "buying" the WWCS, I am "renting" it. If the terms of the agreement change (i.e., no AP or honors), I find a new "landlord".

i'm afraid i would have to agree...

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No, absolutely not. I would move. I'm not ashamed to admit that. I am not "buying" the WWCS, I am "renting" it. If the terms of the agreement change (i.e., no AP or honors), I find a new "landlord".

I wander what the state report card would look like if all the "Gifted Kids" left.

Anybody want to take a guess?

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NOS, thanks for answering honestly.

Where I use to work we refered to it as the "core business", or "core client". The "core business/client", depending what you were refering to, was the 80% middle ground, not the extremes. You had to get that 80% right, whether it was in product, client base, or consumer base. If you lost your extremes, your overall business should not suffer greatly. If you looked at a graph you would see a dip, but over a few months it would begin to stabilize.

My fear has always been that those who support the school district are supportive of only the "extremes". They are not looking at the whole picture. Of course one response is not an indicator, but I always believed that NOS could not be budge from his allegiance of the school and obviously this is not the case.

NOS, in your experience do you believe that the majority of the WWSD enthusiasts are supporters of the "extreme", in lieu of the school district as a whole? If the "extremes" were eliminated/minimized what do you think would happen to the district based on your knowledge of the families involved?

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I wander what the state report card would look like if all the "Gifted Kids" left.

Anybody want to take a guess?

Many of the gifted kids did leave.

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This is not good at all.

85% of the districts in the state earned a higher rating?

Is this a direct result of the reconfiguration?

Warrior, I hope you find the answer.......

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