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New teachers pay -- very high

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In addition, based on what you're saying, you have no idea who's a "good" teacher, or "bad" teacher, in the WWSD. You don't even know if there are any good teachers in the WWSD because you can't accurately evaluate them. I always heard about this wonderful Kindergarten teacher at Lakeside, I believe she has since retired. They said alot of great things about her, I heard she was "excellent", but that's impossible to judge. She wasn't any better than the other teacher because you can't compare teachers. The WWSD has this Principal, Mr. Denny. Everyone speaks highly of him, but how is that possible? I'm certain he was no different than the previous four Principals.

Over the past few years my kids have had several teachers and you know what? They were all the same. No one was better than the other. I would highly recommend each one equally. blink.gif

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Reread...I didn't say impossible, because it isn't. I said more difficult than other professions because of many variables. Just wondering...are you okay Christine? You sure have been awfully snarky lately. I always admired your ability to communicate in a way that was intelligent yet not flippant...that seems to have changed immensely. What a shame.

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I always admired your ability to communicate in a way that was intelligent yet not flippant...that seems to have changed immensely. What a shame.

Get use to disappointment, I have.

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Posted · Report post

In addition, based on what you're saying, you have no idea who's a "good" teacher, or "bad" teacher, in the WWSD.  You don't even know if there are any good teachers in the WWSD because you can't accurately evaluate them.  I always heard about this wonderful Kindergarten teacher at Lakeside, I believe she has since retired.  They said alot of great things about her, I heard she was "excellent", but that's impossible to judge.  She wasn't any better than the other teacher because you can't compare teachers.  The WWSD has this Principal, Mr. Denny.  Everyone speaks highly of him, but how is that possible?  I'm certain he was no different than the previous four Principals.

Over the past few years my kids have had several teachers and you know what?  They were all the same.  No one was better than the other.  I would highly recommend each one equally.  blink.gif

Oh, no Christine. Mr. Denny is the real deal. I would not hesitate to say that if there was one person that I would want to pattern my education career after, it would be Steve Denny.

Seriously, even you would be impressed Christine. I kid you not. If there were one person that could make you a fan of WWCSD, it would be Steve Denny.

His interpersonal skills and knowledge and work ethic are unmatched by anyone that I have worked with over the last 15 years. The nice thing about him is that he makes everyone that works for him feel important and valued. He's thorough too. I had an evaulation from him and it was thorough. He wrote down more than I even SAID during the class.

He's a great principal, but an even better man.

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Get use to disappointment, I have.

Christine,

You need to see a massuese! A massage therapist and possibly a exercise physiologist. You seem to be very frustrated.

Why such bitterness towards teachers?

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Oh, no Christine.  Mr. Denny is the real deal.  I would not hesitate to say that if there was one person that I would want to pattern my education career after, it would be Steve Denny.

Seriously, even you would be impressed Christine.  I kid you not.  If there were one person that could make you a fan of WWCSD, it would be Steve Denny. 

His interpersonal skills and knowledge and work ethic are unmatched by anyone that I have worked with over the last 15 years.  The nice thing about him is that he makes everyone that works for him feel important and valued.  He's thorough too.  I had an evaulation from him and it was thorough.  He wrote down more than I even SAID during the class.

He's a great principal, but an even better man.

I'm certain I would be impressed, that's the point.

You just stated that he has strong interpersonal skills, knowledge and work ethic. His skills are unmatched, he's thorough and makes his team feel important and valued. So you could probably easily pick on a scale, although subjective, one of the following:

-- "not met" expectations

-- "met" expectations

-- "exceeded" expectations

When I worked at a company, in Kentucky, they assessed based on a similar scale. Ultimately, you received a final assessment of; "met", "not met", or "exceeded". Financially speaking, if you achieved "met" you received a cost of living increase, if you achieved "exceed" your increase was above cost of living, however you capped out at a certain percentage (ex. up to 6%, depending on profits for the year), if you received "not met" you were not eligible for any increase. "Not met" also meant that you were on probation. If you received two "mets" in a row you were gone. If the company didn't show a certain percentage of profits, then everyone was unhappy. No matter how hard you worked, or how good you were.

It sounds like Mr. Denny would easily achieve "exceeded", therefore he would be rewarded. And I bet that you could probably place most teachers in one of these categories, pretty easily.

As for having an issue with teachers, Bigdog, I have the utmost respect for them. Since I've been at St. James, 3 years now, I work every Thursday morning and make copies for the teachers in an effort to show my appreciation and help to alleviate their workload. They know that they can count on me for everything and anything.

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Ironically, Christine and I are in agreement much more than not. It's just that when we are not, the differences are dramatic.

I haven't seen anything "anti-teacher" about her. She just wants and expects high standards for our teachers. I suspect that, given the option, she would be right in there working tirelessly to create a fair and equitable system for evaluating teachers.

Quit focusing on the "punishment" part of the equation and instead focus on "rewads."

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Ironically, Christine and I are in agreement much more than not.

Will miracles every cease. wink.gif

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I'm certain I would be impressed, that's the point.

You just stated that he has strong interpersonal skills, knowledge and work ethic. His skills are unmatched, he's thorough and makes his team feel important and valued. So you could probably easily pick on a scale, although subjective, one of the following:

-- "not met" expectations

-- "met" expectations

-- "exceeded" expectations

When I worked at a company, in Kentucky, they assessed based on a similar scale. Ultimately, you received a final assessment of; "met", "not met", or "exceeded". Financially speaking, if you achieved "met" you received a cost of living increase, if you achieved "exceed" your increase was above cost of living, however you capped out at a certain percentage (ex. up to 6%, depending on profits for the year), if you received "not met" you were not eligible for any increase. "Not met" also meant that you were on probation. If you received two "mets" in a row you were gone. If the company didn't show a certain percentage of profits, then everyone was unhappy. No matter how hard you worked, or how good you were.

It sounds like Mr. Denny would easily achieve "exceeded", therefore he would be rewarded. And I bet that you could probably place most teachers in one of these categories, pretty easily.

As for having an issue with teachers, Bigdog, I have the utmost respect for them. Since I've been at St. James, 3 years now, I work every Thursday morning and make copies for the teachers in an effort to show my appreciation and help to alleviate their workload. They know that they can count on me for everything and anything.

Christine,

I bet if Mr. Denny worked for you, he'd make the case to get rid of the 6% cap. He would do very well in the private sector. But on that point, I agree. There are some teachers that literally coast once they get to 20 or 25 years. Put er on auto pilot and churn out the same worksheets that they have used since the Reagan administration. When I was 5 years out of HS, I gave my sister all of my old Alg. II tests to study. They were the SAME TESTS that she had to take because the teacher apparently used them over and over. When we caught on, she just memorized the answers. Teachers under 10 years of service are drilled with observations and reviews and requests to take classes. There are bad teachers at every experience level, but it is only the newer teachers that are weeded out of the system. We must keep this in mind.

The problem that I had with working with veteran teachers is some of them were quick to bring their "concens" about another teacher to the attention of the administration.. or at least gossip about them. In the meantime, the gossiper was never scrutinized because they had been there so long and it was just assumed that they knew what they were/are doing. It was true when I worked in the biz world as well. If the spotlight is on someone else, it is not on you. That mentality also holds back an organization from being truely great.

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I completely understand what you're saying, but I believe it would be a much better system if we were allowed to reward the Mr. Denny's of the world.

I'm just going to add one last thing and hopefully I'll stay off this topic. I believe the WWSD can be a phenomenal school district. I believe that if structured in an innovative way, not only will people buy into it, but they will financially support it. Not only that, but I believe it will attract high quality individuals/families into all three communities, thus impacting the demographics in a positive manner. I also believe that through innovation there is a chance that "every" child in this district can go beyond their expectations, or at least a very high percentage of them can.

I do not believe the current direction is getting us there. However, I do believe that the current Board and Superintendent have the talent, experience and ability to get us there, if they choose. I also believe that our time is limited and we may, very quickly, get to the "point of no return". I do not believe we have time for other people to run for the Board, "get their feet wet" and learn all the necessary processes and procedures. I put forth my ideas to the Board, I haven't heard from them and I don't expect to. However, I would like to see others step up and provide their feedback to the Board and Superintendent. Hopefully, that feedback will include "let's try something new".

"If you build it, they will come".

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We are focusing on the wrong stuff here, if we really wish to improve this district.

*What is the real student population of the district?

*What plans/strategies are in place to meet the needs of the total population?

WWWarrior posted some good info on mobility. That is a huge issue in our district.

*What transitions plans/programs are in place when new students come in with deficiencies? How do we help kids catch up?

Christine's plan may have some merit. I like that she is at least thinking and working for solutions. I can appreciate that. We can create innovative schools designed to seperate out the population to make them feel seperate? But the district will not improve until the reality of who we are dealing with sets in and we have strong leadership working within that reality.

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MS teacher, the questions that you raise sound like great discussion points for the WWTA. It is my understanding that the incoming leader of that group is excellent.

I'm very pleased that that person is stepping up. I have high expectations.

But MS raises some fair points about vision and morale. It might be fair to ask (even in a confidential survey) what the staff thinks of the place and what they have problems with in their building.

We are going to be on this levy bandwagon every 2 years if state funding keeps going the way that it is. Even if we get the levy passed this year, we are hardly out of jeopardy. My fear is that the trainwreck is coming as the State and Federal government keep "re-inventing" education and expecting local taxpayers to foot the bill.

Sure, we have to do what we can to get a levy passed this year, but some fank discussion is also required. I don't know if Dr. Nasbe does the Coffee circuit anymore, but perhaps a few teachers should join her.

Here's something we did when we worked in industry. We had a tough CEO that, although tough, recognized the need to answer questions from the employees. Since most employees fear getting fired for asking tough questions, everyone wrote them down. Then, one of his henchmen was instructed to select the toughest of the bunch. No suck-*** questions allowed. He answered them in an open forum at an annual meeting. We looked forward to it every year. One of those questions got me a huge raise later that year. I think people really respected that. Folks didn't like the answer they got half the time.

Q: I can never find a parking space in the morning.

A: Get here earlier then.

This forum is a good start, but we do need to do a lot of soul searching both internally and externally if we are going to be the great district that we certainly can be. We don't have a choice. The funding is getting tighter and the students are getting more challenging and the parents are getting more demanding.

I think everyone on the board believes that a strong Winton Woods is in their best interest.

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